Exclusive to LIFE's World Wide Web site by Seth
Goddard.
SG: From your perspective, both as the leader of the Student
Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and as a congressman, was there
something that was different about the baby boom generation--their
ability to accept the civil rights cause more so than their
parents?
SG: Have the boomers held on to the vision?
SG: There were certainly a lot of baby boomers with their children
at the Million Man March. How was the march different from those of the
'60's?
SG: For you, what has been the lasting sense from those
marches?
SG: The look of hope that the marchers have on their faces in
this photo, the hope that was such an integral part of the movement, has
it changed?
SG: Where did the hope go?
SG: Can we just chalk up this selfish attitude to getting
older and having to pay bills?
SG: How do others of your generation see you?
SG: You mentioned the need to pace yourself and to avoid becoming
bitter. Part of the movement did become bitter.
SG: I understand that at that point you were forced out.
SG: How do you compare your youthful years with the experiences of
adolescents today? What, as parents, should the baby boomers focus on?
I think young people today can learn from another generation. I think
even people studying [civil rights]. If they read about what happened,
if they watch Eyes on the Prize, I think they can learn. The kids
were involved in something much higher. The crime rate, all of the
studies, all of the reports will show, that in the African-American
community, where there was a strong nonviolent movement, the crime rate
went down. Doctors and nurses and emergency workers at hospitals can
tell you that in the late '50s and the '60s, when there was a strong
nonviolent campaign going on in Montgomery or Birmingham or Selma, there
were few emergency calls, there were few people being shot on a Friday
night or being cut on a Saturday night.
I've said to young people: "You're too quiet, you're just too quiet. You
need to make some noise, you need to agitate in a nonviolent and
creative fashion." What this Congress is proposing to do to education
is a threat to many of our children, to many young people at all levels,
really. Young people in this country, students in elementary school,
high school, at the college level, should organize in mass and say to
the Congress that we will not take it if you propose to cut education by
millions and billions of dollars. This is our future. There should be
a major campaign to say: "Invest in our future, invest in education."
Sometimes I wish I was a student again. I see what is happening in
Washington today. It is just unthinkable.
SG: You mentioned that you talk with students.
Many of these young people, even young people here in the South, cannot
believe it. They know very little about this contemporary history. So
when I go to speak to a group of young black and white students at an
elementary school or high school, they want to know more. What was it
like working with Martin Luther King, Jr.? What was it like going on
the Freedom Ride? What did you do when someone poured cold water on you
or spilled a hot cup of coffee on you or tried to fumigate you in a
store? Why didn't you strike back? What does it mean to be nonviolent?
Why didn't you hit back? In the process, you try to educate these young
people, inform these young people, but also say to them that another
generation of young people, another generation of students, made a
difference, and you too can make a difference. I tell them that I grew
up very very poor in rural Alabama on a farm, but I was encouraged by my
mother and father to stay in school, to get an education, and I didn't
get involved in drugs and violence and gangs. I say you can be what you
want to be. You must not give up. You must not give in. You must not
get lost in a sea of despair. Try to provide some sense of hope. I was
beaten. I was arrested and jailed and all of that, but I don't hate
anybody. I don't hold any malice and you must not.
SG: Did you think in 1965, when the Voting Rights Act was signed
into law, that you would become a congressman?
Born the son of sharecroppers in
1940, John Lewis was first elected to the House
of Representatives (D-GA) in 1986 after serving for four years on the
Atlanta city council. His work in the early and mid '60s as a civil
rights leader and Chairman of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating
Committee (SNCC) nearly cost him his life at the hands of angry white
mobs and club wielding state troopers. At the age of 23, he was
recognized as one the six primary leaders of the Civil Rights Movement
and was an organizer and a keynote speaker at the 1963 March on
Washington, D.C. The following year he coordinated voter registration
efforts during the Mississippi Summer Project. In 1965, he led marchers,
many of them baby boomers, into what would become known as "Bloody
Sunday," one of the most dramatic nonviolent protests of the
Movement.
JL: This generation came into being at a time
when they saw, we saw, the world before us change. We saw people moving
towards freedom and independence. We saw people moving towards a more
open society. There were things that many people in the previous
generation just sort of accepted and this generation said, No.
This generation was deeply inspired, moved, and touched by the vision of
Martin Luther King Jr., by the vision of John F. Kennedy. The
generation before had been influenced by parents and grandparents and
other relatives who had been touched by the war. This generation wanted
to be part of an effort to put an end to violence and to war and to
racism and to division in our society.
JL: I
think this generation has held to this vision-- the idea of a beloved
community, the idea of an open society, the idea of a truly interracial
democracy in America. It is encouraging that children, and I guess in
some cases their grandchildren, are to be part of this effort to
continue this vision, to continue the dream for a better society.
JL: Well, this march was altogether different from
the March [on Washington] that my generation and others participated in
more than 30 years ago in 1963, and efforts that people participated in
in 1964 during the Mississippi Summer Project. We had hundreds and
thousands of young people, black and white, come to Mississippi, and the
Selma March in 1965, 31 years ago. [The Movement in the '60's] was more
inclusive. It was blacks and whites, Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish.
It was what we called, during that period, "a circle of trust," a band
of brothers and sisters working and building together, attempting to
build a beloved community, to build an interracial democracy. I think
some of the young people that participated in the Million Man March,
some of the young black men and some not so young, felt that the
previous effort sort of passed them bye and this was their opportunity
to amend--what Minister Farrakhan and some others are calling it--to
atone. I hear people all the time, blacks and whites saying, "Oh, I wish
I had been born a little earlier. I wish I had an opportunity to
participate in the March on Washington in '63. I wish I had an
opportunity to go to Selma, to be in Mississippi in '64. I was too
young."
JL: [The marches] represented America at her best. You
had people, especially the very young, who really believed in the
goodness of the country and wanting to make it real for everybody. There
was the sense that we were one people, that we were one community, one
family, the American family, that we were all in this thing together and
that we had an obligation. We had a mission to do what we could to make
things better for all humankind. People believed that. It was not
a show. It was not caught up in the political whim of the day. There was
a deep and abiding sense that we had to put our bodies on the
line for what was right. It was like a holy crusade. People were
not trying to score political points. They were just trying to make
things better, make things right for all America.
SG: It is interesting that you say it was like a crusade. I'm
actually looking at an image of you
JL: Oh yeah, I remember that day
very well. It was 31 years ago. The day became known as "Bloody
Sunday." We had to find a way to dramatize to the nation and to the
world that people wanted to participate in the democratic process. It
was something that we really felt and believed. On that day we thought
that we would be arrested and jailed. We had no idea that we would be
beat. I remember we left that little church, Brown Chapel, walked
through the streets of Selma, got to the foot of the bridge. We were
walking in twos when we came over the apex of the bridge and saw a sea
of blue. It was the Alabama state troopers. I still thought we would
be arrested and jailed, and we continued to walk. We came within hearing
distance of the state troopers, and this guy, who was a major, said:
"I'm Major John Cloud of the Alabama state troopers. I give you three
minutes to disperse and go back to your church. This is an unlawful
march. It will not be allowed to continue." In less than a minute and
a half he said: "Troopers advance," and they came towards us, beating us
with night sticks, bull whips. Sheriff Clark and his posse started
trampling us with horses and they used the tear gas. But I think it was
necessary for us to be there, to participate in that effort. Some of us
were beaten and some people seriously hurt. Some of us lost a little
blood, but it was necessary in order to gain the right to vote, to make
it possible for all Americans to participate in the democratic process.
(The Voting Rights Act of 1965 was passed five months later.)
JL: It has changed and it's so discouraging
to me sometimes.
JL: I tell ya, we
were [so hopeful]. My generation and many of the children--I was 25 but
these kids were like 14, 15, and in some cases they were younger--they
were so hopeful. They were so optimistic. They would come to the church
and they would sing songs of hope. They would march and be smiling as
they were being put on a paddy wagon going to jail. I think--I really
believe this--some of that sense of hope died and some of it was
destroyed and some of it just disappeared with the assassinations of
President Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Dr. King. I had friends and
close buddies in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, in SCLC
[Southern Christian Leadership Conference], and in the movement, who
just sort of dropped out, just almost gave up because they couldn't take
what had happened to some of the people we had looked up to. And then I
think, we don't have that same sense of what I call moral urgency. There
are different battles. It's a different period and it's not as simple.
We saw those [public] signs [of segregation] and they were very visible,
and today many of the signs are somewhat invisible. We had a different
leadership. I think too many of us in the late '60s, the '70s, the
'80s, and even during this period, got caught up in getting my piece of
the pie, getting my piece of the action. We've become too concerned
about mine, mine, mine, rather than being concerned about all of us.
We're all in this thing together.
JL: As you get older, you
have certain responsibilities--you get married, you get a family, you
have to pay a mortgage, you have to be responsible for you're kid's
education--but I think in this rush to get my piece of the pie, my piece
of the action, we lost that sense of what I like to call a moral
authority. We start turning inward and being more concerned about my own
situation and my own predicament and my own circumstances. Dr. King
used to speak a great deal about that. In order to become a true
participant in the movement, you sort of forget about your own
circumstances. You lose yourself and become involved in the
circumstances and predicaments of others. You see things in terms of the
common good.
JL: Some
would say, "Well, he's been consistent, he's kept his eyes on the
prize." Some would say, "You know, he's sort of crazy. How long is he
going to continue to do this? Why is he doing it?" And people
sometimes ask me, "Aren't you frustrated? Don't you get tired? Why do
you keep banging your head against a wall? How can you work in that
environment?" You just don't give up. You keep the faith. You be
hopeful and you tell yourself over and over again, "You're not going to
become bitter, you're not going to become hostile." I used to say to
people in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, people in the
movement, and as I say to my own staff and colleagues in the Congress
today: "Pace yourself, pace yourself. Don't get in a hurry." The
problems we are facing in the American society are not problems that
were created yesterday. They were not created overnight and they're not
going to be solved in the matter of a few days or a few weeks or a few
months or maybe a few years. But you have to take the long hard look
and do what you can do, but do something. Be involved.
JL: It was not
positive. People started turning on each other. It's exactly what
happened to my own organization, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating
Committee, and to a significant degree, to other parts of the movement.
You had a situation where people said, "We tried that, and people are
not getting registered, things are not changing in a significant
degree." I think people came down [to the South], some people, blacks
and whites, and said, "We'll work for you, we'll work for a semester,
we'll work for a summer," and they didn't see meaningful major changes,
and they became frustrated. Some people became hostile and bitter and
disillusioned. Even in SNCC, we came to that point where some people
started saying: "Well maybe all of the white people should leave and
there should only be blacks in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating
Committee. Maybe we should drop nonviolence." And people started
wanting different things different ways.
JL: That's right. I was reelected and then deelected in one evening.
It was like the coups that take place in some of these countries.
JL: I think parents need to spend more time listening to
the children, to the young people, encouraging young people to get
involved in the big global picture. In my own case, sometimes I feel
that I didn't have a childhood. I feel like I was forced to grow up
overnight. I think a lot of young people that came through that period
did grow up overnight. We were forced to grow up. Some people literally
grew up on lunch counter stools. Some people grew up on a march. They
had to grow up. Overnight they had to become adults. You're arrested,
you're going to jail, you're the spokesperson, you have to organize, you
have to conduct a nonviolent workshop. So your experience becomes much
larger than your years, in a sense, because you have to take on certain
responsibilities and obligations. And this may not be the fair thing to
do, but I see young people today, 16, 17, 18, 19 years old, just sort of
wasting away. I'm not going to put down their music and their dress and
all of that but to me, on one hand, it seems like a big waste. Many
young people, my age at the time and many much younger, were involved in
some creative way by helping to make the society different and
better.
JL: The
young people, they want to know. Sometimes I take photographs or show
them a little video, but for the most part I just tell the story about
seeing signs saying White Waiting, Colored Waiting, White Men, Colored
Men, White Women, Colored Women. I tell them what it was like in
Atlanta, in Montgomery or in Birmingham during the '50s and during the
'60s, what it was like to be arrested and beaten or to go to jail for a
time, what it was like to work with Martin Luther King, Jr., or to be
stuck with an electric cattle prodder, or for a police officer like Bull
Connor in Birmingham to call his police away and let an angry mob beat
you up at a bus station.
JL: No,
no, no. I thought people in Selma and parts of Alabama and 'round the
south and in the nation would become registered voters. My own mother
and my own father could not even register to vote at the time. They
were living in rural Alabama. School teachers of mine--people who had
taught me in high school and college--could not. If someone had told me
then that one day I would be in the Congress I would have said, "You're
crazy. You're out of your mind." I didn't have any idea that one day I
would be elected to anything. That was far, far removed from my mind.
It was not even a dream.
You can explore Congressman Lewis's initiatives on the World Wide Web.
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